How do they make uruk hai

Which two species are crossed to form Uruk-Hai? What are goblin men? What are goblins, and how do they differ from orcs? I hope that someone on the forum will be able to clear up my confusion! Snaga The Usual Suspect. Seemingly innocuous questions, Elf Queen, but actually quite tricky. Firstly, your confusion arises from a movie line that states that "by foul craft Saruman has cross orcs with goblin-men.

Goblin men, therefore, are a cross-breed between orcs and humans, and certainly this is something that the miserable maggot-wizard Saruman did. The issue, that has often been debated, is what exactly the Uruk-Hai are. The book indicates that they are a tough breed of orcs, possibly an orc-human cross-breed. There are orc-human cross-breeds that are very mannish e. Others will tell you that Uruk-Hai is just a plural of uruk, meaning 'great orcs'; and that these were also found in Mordor.

In the end this is not clearly answered in the text, and people have debated this at enormous length, with no final conclusion. Ithrynluin seeker of solace. The following quote might be of some interest to you, though it doesn't asnwer your questions. It became clear in time that undoubted Men could under the domination of Morgoth or his agents in a few generations be reduced almost to the Orc-level of mind and habits; and then they would or could be made to mate with Orcs , producing new breeds, often larger and more cunning.

There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age , Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Men-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile.

Click to expand Can't let this one slip by, even if ithrynluin and snaga1 have nicely provided the meat of the matter. It is, after all, my pet topic. An attempt to clarify in terms of opponent theories: Theory 1: The Uruk-hai are solely an invention of Saruman. This is more or less the theory espoused by the films, although they have botched the finer points of the theory by referring to Saruman's hybrids as both 'Uruk-hai' and ' Uruks '.

In this theory all Uruk-hai are hybrids, made when Saruman crossed orcs or goblins if you like with men. All Uruk-hai as a result would be bigger than orcs orcs themselves are considerably smaller than men- generally about the size of dwarf , and all Uruk-hai would also be less affected by the sun than orcs. This theory is hazy on the issue of percentage of human blood. Since I am one of the chief protagonists of this theory on this forum I might as well say that I think Uruk-hai can refer to either orc-men or men-orcs, it just generally refers to the hybrid race produced by Saruman.

Theory 1 also holds that Sauron has a slightly different but closely related breed of orcs called Uruks. The chief difference between Saruman's Uruk-hai and Sauron's Uruks stems from the influence of mannish blood. Thus while Sauron's Uruks are stronger and more martial than your run-of-the-mill orc, they will still tend to be somewhat smaller and of course less sun-tolerant than Saruman's Uruk-hai.

Tolkien plainly states that Uruks were first seen in Third Age , while Saruman did not start his hybridization experiments earlier than TA the War of the Ring takes place in TA Because the Uruks are a much older breed and represent a 'higher form' of Orc, they would likely be the starting point for Saruman's breeding program.

The terms orc and goblin are synonymous, so you could as easily say Uruk-hai are crosses between men and goblins. Again "Uruk-hai" refers to hybrids- some of which are mostly men and some of which are mostly orc. Theory 2: The word 'Uruks' is an English approximation of the Black Speech term 'Uruk-hai' It took me a while to catch on to the subtleties of this theory, but let me attempt to explain.

The most direct translation of Uruk-hai which is a name in Black Speech , an invented language of Tolkien's is "Orc-folk". Several of Tolkien's languages follow this mode of changing singular to collective plural, most notably Sindarin. Again, this is a manner of making a singular term into a plural term- the same thing that the English language generally accomplishes by adding the letter 's'. According to Theory 2, Uruk-hai and Uruks are simply synonyms, and both refer to large soldier-orcs used by both Sauron and Saruman.

The entire group of Uruk-hai would then not have been created by Saruman, would not be more sun-tolerant, and neither would they be hybrids although some Uruk-hai would have been all three! Does that clear anything up? I didn't think so. Arvedui Stargazer. Do I sense another ' Uruks vs. Uruk-hai ' emerging? That would be great, cause the original is still one of the best, if not in fact the best thread on TTF. Those that haven't read it should spare the time needed to do so.

Melko Belcha Member. LotR - Appendix F Orc is the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan. In Sindarin it was orch. Related, no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech , though this was applied as a rule only to the great soilder-orcs that at this time issued from Mordor and Isengard.

LotR - Appendix A In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks , black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. The Uruks first appeared out of Mordor around years before Saruman moved into Orthanc.

Many Uruks from the Misty Mountains came into service of Saruman. Orcs began to raid in the eastern regions and slay or steal horses. Others also came down from the Misty Mountains, many being great uruks in the service of Saruman, though it was long before that was suspected.

But there was still Uruks in Moria that worked for Sauron. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's Orcs can endure it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men?

That would be a black evil! Do you know, they reminded me at once of that Southerner at Bree , only he was not so obviously orc-like as most of these were. We learn in some of Tolkien 's later writtings that Saruman bred Men-orcs and Orc-men.

Morgoth 's Ring - Myths Transformed There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age , Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Men-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile.

As soon as the enemy had gained possession of the eastern end of the Fords there appeared a company of men or Orc-men We also learn about the squint-eyed southerner in Bree. Unfinished Tales - The Hunt for the Ring Some while ago one of Saruman's most trusted servants yet a ruffianly fellow, an outlaw driven from Dunland , where many said that he had Orc-blood had returned from the borders of the Shire , where he had been negotiating for the purpose of "leaf" and other supplies This Dunlending was overtaken by seceral of the Black Riders as they approached the Tharbad crossing The Witch-king had now a clearer understanding of the matter Seeing that his Master suspected some move between the Shire and Bree the position of which he knew would be an important point, at least for information.

He put therefore the Shadow of fear on the Dunlending, and sent him on to Bree as an agent. He was the squint-eyed southerner at the Inn. When Strider and the Hobbits left Bree Frodo caught a glimpse of the Dunlending "a swallow face with sly, slanting eyes" in Bill Ferny's house on the outskirts of Bree, and thought: "He looks more than half like a goblin. I don't believe it is either. I believe hai means either troop or company, or some military term.

The Orcs lower down had suddenly seen something. Did J. Tolkien Invent Orcs. Where Do Elves Live in Middle-earth? Do All Elves Leave Middle-earth? Use this form to contact Michael Martinez. Thank you. Org in the past. Given their massive numerical advantage, they then manage to fight nearly on par with the armies of Men.

We see them kill by the dozen, and they even appear to hold the advantage until the Riders of Rohan enter the fray. It is important to note that the shortcomings of the army you bring up are largely due to rushed training.

One cannot breed an army to know how to deal with cavalry, or fight any better than an untrained brute, but they can be trained to such proficiency. The question of why not create a supreme race is flawed a bit from the very beginning.

Why didn't the forces of good simply reach out to Valinor and summon an army of Maiar because surely an army of divine being with power comparable to Gandalf, Radagast, Sauron, Saruman, etc would far outweigh the Riders of Rohan?

Even Sauron had fallen lesser spirits at his disposal in the form of Balrogs. Saurons power and thus Sarumans was greatly weakened long before the popular books everyone is aware of even come into the timeline. Sauron himself by the time of LoTR had already lost his ability to take physical form other than the mountain featuring his ever watchful eye in the first war against him where he was separated from The One Ring.

That ring held much of his essence and power inside itself and without it he was forever greatly diminished, but more importantly he was just a servant, a false weak champion of evil without true creative power. Orcs, Dragons, Balrogs, and the truly powerful evils of Middle Earth including Sauron himself were only possible due to his master Melkor, the most powerful of all the Ainur.

Melkor tainted the lands by singing in his on disharmonies during the Singing of Creation which was led by Eru Iluvatar The godlike creature that created all the Ainur. Afterwards Melkor sought out and tried to become a creator like Eru himself was but he lacked The Flame Imperishable and so his tainted song simply never was capable of TRUE creation The seeds of disharmony along with his lies and his wit tricked and twisted creatures into orcs, dragons, and other evils but still he was incapable of truly ever "creating" any race.

Even the orcs are simply Elves that Melkor twisted and tortured into their corrupt form. During the events that occur long before The Hobbit, LoTR, in a time only remembered by the Valar, Maiar, and the eldest of the immortal elves Melkor was defeated after much war, and death leaving a taint forever lingering until the remastering of the world was to occur.

Melkor fueled his 'creations' just as Sauron fueled the ring, with their very essence and this false hubris led to Melkors defeat. Sauron was simply a Maiar that followed Melkor and served him in the same sense as the Witch King served Sauron so the day Melkor was defeated and the battles leading to that day led to the death or fleeing of much of 'evils' forces such as most of the wyrms and the Balrog etc. Sauron himself never truly was even this capable of 'making' his own race.

He was but a shadow compared to Melkor which was a shadow compared to the power of Eru Iluvatar and his sole capability to truly create. Now speed to the events you speak of in which Sauron has already been depleted of much of his personal power when he lost the ring itself.

Take into account that Saurumon and Sauron were neither Valar but simply the lesser Maiar. Saurumon is three steps removed from any being capable of creation, and even his most powerful leader had lost half his being, life-force, and essence long ago when the ring was stripped from him.

So for a lot of the commenting about why not create better, or why not breed much stronger is simply that for all his power Urak-Hai was the best the weak willed fool could do to help a weakened fool he followed in carrying out the plans of the only true Valar long since removed from the battle.

So when looking at Uruk-Hai vs Orcs remember they are corrupted mutts of a true species. As far as why breed and use Uruk-Hai over Orcs since they aren't as strong as the true races Which was out of the range of Melkor, Sauron, and definitely Saurumon to even created to fight an actual Eru created race you are asking the wrong question. Its almost as simple as looking at it like this: I have a sword I made from iron.

Your incapable of the skills required to make something of metal. Your handed a bone sword by your commander but you know how to craft a sword made of rock like obsidian Which sword would you use against me in the fight? Sign up to join this community.

The best answers are voted up and rise to the top. Stack Overflow for Teams — Collaborate and share knowledge with a private group. Sauron and his minion Saruman have both been leaders of the Uruk-hai at different points in time. Morgoth is considered the true source of evil within Middle-earth, though there is some speculation that there was a greater darkness that corrupted him as well. Given Tolkien's views on the nature of good and evil, it is likely that the evil does not stem from a specific physical being in the realm of Middle-earth.

They seem to be scary-looking creatures that do nothing but grunt and kill. Tolkien was when it came to creating the orcs. In fact, the Uruk-hai are considered a step removed from the rest, engineered to be more ruthless and efficient warriors in the war of good vs. Runes are an ancient type of alphabet, used mostly today for their use in fantasy fiction and visual artwork. While it might seem like they would use their set extensively, there were many times that Uruks used other runes.

The main runic-based alphabet in LotR is known as the Cirth, which Tolkien invented himself. By some accounts, the runes used by the Uruk-hai were an amalgamation developed by Sauron for Black Speech, the official language of Mordor. Tolkien had a love for history and languages, which is apparent in his meticulously detailed works. He invented several languages for LotR , including the dialect spoken by the Uruk-hai. The Black Speech was created by Sauron to guarantee only one language was spoken amongst his hordes of troops.

This served as a means for Sauron to more easily keep the orcs and Uruks under his control. Studies of the work indicate the speech was derived from ancient Mesopotamian.

This is likely because Tolkien wanted the Black Speech to sound harsh, and ancient languages are said to be more guttural. While the Uruk-hai are often depicted as brutish warriors, they also had definitive cultural traditions.

Since Tolkien's work is fundamentally about the nature of good vs. The Uruks have interests and traditions that are relatable, but that are twisted toward the darker aspects of human nature. There are examples of Uruk-hai traveling for miles to bury their fallen as they have specific rituals. Not only does this make them more well-rounded villains, but it also builds upon the idea that even the best aspects of humanity can be corrupted.

Like most literature that examines this, it appears that Tolkien wanted to emphasize what he saw as the folly of unrestrained power and bloodlust. The Uruk-hai are not only more intelligent than orcs, they are also incredibly inventive.